treaty each one russia needs relations and made things clear up with a european missile defense program but things are still where they started the alliance wants interceptor missiles in eastern europe and russia wants guarantees the warmth red meat security the two parties also disagree with the current middle eastern issues like syria and libya. alexis thank you very much for coming into the show it's a pleasure to have been here and first of all before we start talking about war and missiles and all those things let's talk about the from the more lively things like the rupert murdoch affair which which really lives up this holiday season well is it would you would you consider to be in an. international international interest scale because everything the whole world falling well certainly i mean it's definitely a transatlantic affair because of course rupert murdoch's interest in the wall street journal ties it to to the north atlantic business community as well

and and attention is drawn toward britain naturally because these sort of scandals of corruption and police chiefs resigning aren't supposed to happen in the old western countries you know these are safer things of other countries but it's happening right in london it's happening right in westminster as we speak. the prime minister killing themselves. it's you know it's it's an interesting affair and i think also. at the start it wasn't it wasn't very clear how much this would affect cameron but i think it might affect him greatly i think he he behaved in such a way which was which was fantastic in that he was very candid in the way he responded and in a way wasn't guilty of anything but the way of which he was slow to. to punish courson for what had happened i think is going to hurt him in the long run. they

called people called me for a couple of colleagues from different russian. sources considering the lack spirit in britain saying should they really change the law should they really change the law regulating the work of the press and the and the relationship between the press and the society and lasted no the new reason i think it's a matter of implementation because people when people are breaking the law what's the use changing law or maybe i'm not right because people are the government they want to change the law well no i mean i think it's also looking at the way in which the law protects the people in this if you follow the super injunctions scandals as well in the u.k. and of course we had julian assange a year ago. i think the way in which the relationship between the media and technology and people is evolving in such a rapid pace but this is a scandal of all the i mean this is you could write this in a book could be fiction it could be a television show or a film so this is something i know was there was the von film in which there was

the villain was loosely based on report murdoch i believe so i think the relationship is changing but i don't think we should create new laws or disband all one simply because they're broken. as you quoted the film does that mean he we needed them below person to deal with they're going to find the scenes. somewhere with a lot of. ok well. do you think that this may seriously harm. the business or will it maybe give more publicity to papers. well i mean certainly not the news of the world of course that one might be selling anytime soon but i think something like the wall street journal is going to be brilliant and. in a way businessmen like rupert murdoch are buoyant until they come to. house of

cards comes falling down like it did with for example ken lay and enron but that's not a scandal of that kind of proportions i don't think trickling down it's more of a question of his legitimacy so from here on out he's probably going to be completely inhibited in terms of pursuing business. i would say it is harming the reputation of the british press do you agree absolutely journalism in general journalism now. but i mean i don't think papers for example like the financial times will suffer. hopefully not ok now let's switch to two to two to world peace in the middle east leaders role is changing in house changes start with that within establish your non fly zone over libya and now to going to war offensive operation in the region but the war in libya in its current form is not was not sanctioned by the united nations does it mean that what the what nato

is doing in libya is illegitimate no i mean i would say that apart from the french dropping weapons. by and large nato is fighting with its hands tied behind its back it's it's almost crippled in its execution of hostilities there or just underneath hostilities in accordance with the u.s. congress and in order to fight within that remit i believe that it's not fighting as effectively as of course it could do so i do think that it's fighting within the u.n. security council along those lines apart from funding one. resolution ninety seventy three of the united nations security council allowed nato to secure this no fly zone to stop president gadhafi from slaughtering his own people but. don't

the turned to assassinate who will to their feet and and there have been a number of them and later seems to be obsessed with that idea doesn't mean that the real real idea behind the campaign is regime change in the country well if you go back to from the nineteenth of march i'm words there's a real there's a great word in english which is backsliding there was a real backsliding and skidding into what began as upholding un resolution one thousand seventy three and really trying to protect civilians in the slaughter of civilians. for example you had b.h.o. not only livy and france really pushing this we've got to say the civilians much in a sort of recalling rwanda and what happened in kosovo and in bosnia. and so that was the real the real tension pushed forward the moment and then you backslide into well how are you going to do that do you need to remove gadhafi from

power and in a sense you do so there was a real reticence to use the words regime change and change and then all of a sudden it starts sliding back into this well we don't seek regime change but gadhafi must go. and so now the real question is how do you remove a man from power. do you put him in asylum that one of the things is putting him in asylum but within libya but i don't really necessarily know how that's going to work either will i don't think it will work i don't think that if gadhafi is going to do is get out if you do believe him because he himself seems pretty confident these that he was he did look worried this couple of weeks but now he seems confident oh yes he's got staying power that is not. many he's got staying power so long as need to cannot fight a war effectively which it cannot do. because it's fighting within the balance of the u.n. security council resolution. and it's not going to really be able to step up its

efforts unless it goes back to the security council and another resolution is passed which one wonders the viability of us russia has refused to recognize the libyan rebels as the legitimate authority in the country spotlights you know the media reports. when nato started its military operation in libya four months ago the u.s. promised not to take sides last week washington changed its mind but an international conference in istanbul it to recognize libya's transitional national council as the country's government until an interim authority is in place united states will recognize that t.n.c. as the legitimate governing authority for libya and we will deal with it on that basis in contrast the united states views the gadhafi regime as no longer having with authority in libya more than thirty nations for would suit now with diplomatic

recognition the u.s. will officially be able to fund the being in gaza based opposition it can use some of the city bunion use dollars of could darfur regime assets frozen and american banks russia has condemned the american decision. but those behind the recognition are fully siding with one political force in the libyan civil war this again just means that those who took this decision are pursuing a policy of isolation that in this case that solution of tripoli is not only to go . russia maintains contact with both tripoli and benghazi urging both sides to get around the negotiation table meanwhile you need a secretary general called only alliances numbers to certainly aircraft to deliver strikes only been targets so far two months of need involvement have not helped break the deadlock in this civil war. well

you mentioned condell feasibility to resist and it certainly has been underestimated the need to what was the reason for this underestimation which is why well i think to begin with again you're fighting as a swordsman with one hand tied behind your back because regime change wasn't mentioned to begin with if you look at the international community in the wider international community sometimes if you look at nader's engagement with other countries for example afghanistan. and iraq it's given nato a bad name it's means that the u.k. and the u.s. are coming to see regime change sensually and so because of that bad name to begin with france and britain and the u.s. did not explicitly did not use the words regime change and of course there are several air power theories one of whom is called eliot cohen from america and he said that the use of air power exclusive air power to carry out a political solution is equivalent to modern courtship it offers immediate

satisfaction without little guarantees or commitments and so in that sense there is a policy of what robert pape calls decapitation decapitation policy literally taking the head off of a regime does little to change anything political the ground as we've so clearly seen in afghanistan with the removal of the taliban and so we've clearly seen with the removal of saddam hussein so it's not a policy that works regime change. however i would say that therefore it wasn't on the cards to begin with. in that very overt sense but of course it had to be because if you're thinking of stopping him killing his citizens you obviously have to stop him. from being in power in some sense says alex this crowd expert on this national security add their oil industry international affairs squad long will be back shortly after we take a break so stay with. wealthy

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to teach began the journey. where did it take them. welcome back to spotlight has been just a reminder my guest in the studio today is alex's crown an expert in international security at the royal institute of international affairs well we've been talking about khadafi and there will be talk about the military operation and you compare that to the saudis been fighting with one hand behind the tide is back but many experts say that even. even if we try to to to to evaluate the operations there have been carried out that it was

a military fiasco do you do you agree with that the mill truly the military did a lousy really lousy job on the ground i think this is symptomatic of the west's attention deficit disorder we might say it looks it looks at a problem area it looks at an issue it decides it wants to solve it and then it deliberates too quickly and hard to solve it so was too little too late and this is of course what a lot of people said about obama's decision to step up troops in afghanistan that it took him far too long to deliberate over this decision so i would agree i would say that in libya either we should have gone in a tall. or we should have done something like this which of course is not the nature of coalition fighting i'm reminded of napoleon's comment when he said next time i fight mord may be against the coalition. but is there a military solution in libya in the region in general. do you believe in nutrition

i know i think this is the great the single greatest problem of modern conflict. anywhere liston anywhere and this is the problem is. does need to have the military capacity to wage coalition warfare yes it does granted if you have partners such as germany on board you know the danes are actually quite on board so it doesn't have the capacity yes it does of course there's political infighting things called national card. and and problems of material however the real question is political will and does it have the political will to sustain operations on the ground and afghanistan in the last decade has proven no we don't have that confirmed although the rule is no consensus because germany you mention italy the not exactly enthusiastic about all this but. least what do you think a compromise between britain and france is the main partners in the you know this

well i think in the architects of the franco british defense treaty a very glad to see that france and britain have agreed and continue to agree and really rally around in europe and knocking on other leaders doors and across the globe is not alone visit. well no i would say it's a marriage with love how do you think the brits and the french in general i mean this specifically here this renewed passion. of this specific issue of one hundred million i don't want specifically ok now. airstrikes are not working so do you think that nato. may start really invasion or will will need to be going for a resolution of the security council for a full scale liberation no i don't see what you will have what you have had since the start. was equivalent of what kennedy sense special advisers on the ground in vietnam when you have special forces on the ground and i think increasingly in

modern conflict you will see special forces operating on the ground in a small sort of shadow capacity. i think you'll continue to see that but not a ground invasion president medvedev of russia said that moscow will not support a resolution against syria's bashar or ashame does it undermine common approach towards the problem. well this these visas didn't intend to do so if russia would china. it is something within the security council of course it detracts from the world but i think it seems to me that at the moment any kind of potential military solution or any kind of resolution against syria wouldn't happen at the moment as as i understand it i'm i'm not an expert on the middle east per se but i understand it side is is is making efforts to negotiate with opposition

is and insofar as he continues to do that i think it will buy him time these will be the security council ok now there is a risk as experts say that the assistance given to the rebels to go to the so-called trans national transitional national committee will go to al qaida to al qaeda elements that are present within the ranks of this committee. do you think there are grounds for research for such expectations if you make a connection to al qaeda that's a quote it is quite a long connection to me i don't even think you need to make that form of a connection simply because do we really know where the benghazi rebels are and i think this is a big question did we really know who the majority in were when the c.a.a. funded them back in during the war in afghanistan and in this this is the real question is not necessarily linked to al qaeda

a word to. you i am al qaeda and in some of my career but even to any other group flooding flooding. a civil war essentially or an area prone to civil war with weapons is not necessarily an inviolable policy you have no idea where those weapons will end up or who those people will be eventually. because good question of what happens to countries like like libya after the war is over so we just leave . if we just stop fighting and that is it it will turn them into sort of an afghanistan local law lawless land. like a nice place for all those clans and rend and groupings then and then and. do all that try to tribal leaders coming to power but if we want to to establish a sustainable peace in the country it's a long and costly for do you think that the europeans will be ready to to go for it

in times of crisis economic difficulties i don't think the west has the political will or the attention span to see that out i think the west is losing as attention span shorter and shorter it gets focused on under massive political consolidation look at what's going on within europe within the euro delaying the inevitable regard to greece and now to to new debt ceilings in italy look at the congressional battles in washington as you can see that the attention span just snaps so i don't think. that a lasting peace will be stabilized and imposed by the european union by need or by the u.s. . and the other thing. if. people within nato if they will decide to go for peace too to work for or for for a treaty between khadafi of the rebels will they let mediators like like south

africa for example or russia step in and try to to to to set up an agreement because this would this would discredit the previous policy which was the cause i would think of intially i would think that i believe that that makes sense i know that. president zuma just got into sort of deep raúl with cameron in south africa over this matter and i as i understand you sent your great chess experts to negotiate libya so i mean i think that that is what makes sense in terms of bringing in other members of the international community in their experiences of resolving conflicts. what do you think. libya's war means for the future of nato and the e.u. common defense project does it need rethinking is it in the in the in the rethinking process the moment a sign of things to come i think increasingly we will see coalitions of the willing

like we saw in iraq. like we saw it like we're seeing in libya. i think what will happen within nato is you will see these coalitions of the willing group around certain issue areas so for example with cyber defense or with climate change or with nuclear defense and in terms of i think it's ringing the death toll the interventionism i think imposing values at the point of a gun hopefully is a policy which is being rid of the west as we speak in libya at the moment it's highly ineffective this week as we discussed and. it seems that. russia's proposal to share the responsibility for europe's missile defense according to the sexual principle is it a sign of the persisting distrust in europe towards the russian. i think that the problem within europe itself is this you've got so many different

gazes towards russia there's a german gaze and there's a british gaze and there's a french gaze and there's an italian gaze and very very very seldomly do all of these gazes look you know in the same direction and so i think this will just be symptomatic of european relations with moscow but i say i mean as i see it i think that the european union does far better in negotiating with russia as a collective entity than nato does but i think things initiatives like the nato russia council are very valuable and even if they disintegrate at some point it's important if even if they're sort of suspended they don't disintegrate so i think it's important to keep them in place and the you know the role of the united states it seems that for the first time in decades the u.s. is not playing a leading role in the military operation doesn't did put the idea of self dependent european defense policy into the region absolutely absolutely and i think this is this is again indicative of

a shift of of washington's gaze toward the east if you look to what secretary of defense bob gates one of his last sort of tours he talked about the pacific and the importance of the pacific and the way in which washington's attention will be much more focused on pacific looking at newer global strategic partners in a way that france germany britain might not be the default strategic ally and i think that is that is indicative of things to come thank you thank you very much and just to remind you that my guest in the studio today was alex this crowd the next group an international security at the institute of international affairs and they're sifting out from all of the population will be back with more and comments on the what's going on in the show to when they were to take.

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the ground in theory truly to tell us that. you can to listen to the ocean as you say don't need to go and. run this in the kennel was the term as a retreat. for people now confirmed killed in friday's attacks in norway as details of the massacre and the man charged with the crime has come to light. anders behring breivik a thirty two year old norwegian arrested earlier has confessed to both the shooting on to toy island and the bombing in central oslo he suspected of links to a far right organization and was strongly opposed to immigration and islam. as greece's credit ratings are threatened with being downgraded and washington takes a step toward default on its national debt gave his public opinion on both sides of the outlet.

good to have you with us here on r t our top story police have charged a man for friday's shooting spree at a norwegian youth camp that left eighty seven dead thirty two year old anders behring breivik was arrested at the scene of the attack on new toy island the rampage happened just hours after the oslo bombing that killed seven for which he's also been charged he reportedly went to the island in a police uniform and asked people to gather around before getting them down an extraordinary picture came from friday's horrific events you can see it here an act of desperation as a man in the water pleads for his life while the government carries out his brutal executions. local media claims breivik had contacts with far right groups and has posted extreme anti muslim statements on his blog a second man was seized by special forces in the area where victims' relatives had

gathered but it's not clear if he has any connection to the atrocity or he's daniel bushell has the latest. brave christine who was. explosion in a. broken close she didn't. wait this just standing thing and then suddenly it just it was like like i'm like a fish just waiting for you bumping along that out like in their eyes. you know they got smashed glass all over them the skin and everything the. victims before drinks as a nation which is never suffered at the hands of terrorists before he says norwegians just didn't know how to react. people told things gaming. this man's wife suffered severe when their windows were blue notes by.